Back Again (insider tips)

I have to expose now some "secrets" about assessing brokers and boat owners, when approaching them to buy your first boat. Doesn't matter at this stage if you buy a motor boat or a sailing one. Let's presume you don't have the minimum budget for a brand boat, like the samples exposed in my previous posts. They can be "custom" made, definitely no name brands, like a few that I'm going to show you here.

 This is the boat, as real as it could be. Seeing the name is no help in a better society. 

  This is what you got. No name. You depend exclusively on the broker. Please click on each picture to see the difference. In a better organized society, if the broker spoke beforehand with the boat owner, they'll have at least an agreement, if not a "concrete molded" contract, so he will not start negotiating with you, the client, to "cut off" the broker. What is happening when there are no brand names involved? For example, in a country like Turkey, a foreign customer, and believe me, the farther away he is, the "better" he'll be "treated", there is no way for him to find the real price a boat owner will be happy with. That is the "not written law". If you act alone, you will be told a bunch of lies. The broker has his own price, not even the owner knows. Of course, the owner "agreed", verbally agreed to an asking price when contacted by the broker, but if you, as a customer, try to contact directly the owner, you'll be told a different price, maybe bigger than what the broker will tell you. In Turkey, this is called pazarlik, and they, the Turks think of themselves as "good" traders. If you accept the asking price, you're done. It is always more than he expects, because he expects from you to try to down the price automatically. If you come from a highly civilized country, you'll accept maybe just a little reduction from the initial price, a 2% perhaps, which is actually with something between 40 to 50% more than what the owner told the broker. And it's done.
If a broker is not experimented, he won't have an answer for any question. He'll lie, and lie, and lie some more, just to close the agreement, to have some 10% of almost any price, (as advance payment, or deposit, or whatever it's called) money you'll lose in any good designed contract if you change your mind to buy. If he has some experience, he'll know the real price of the boat (the owner will be happy with any sum close to the real price), he'll put separately the commission and start negotiating with the boat owner exactly in your name, because he represents you. In reality? There is no such a broker in Turkey. Also, the bunches of owners dream to big money for their boats, even if they worked them up to more than their value, sometimes without refitting, but pretending the contrary. 
In Turkey, you will be advised from the beginning to not survey the boat. "It's not necessary" you will be told. And it's right, in a way. The greater majority of the boats for sale in Turkey, don't have what is called Class Certification. If the surveyor is Turkish, he'll be in an agreement with the broker, 99%.
If he's foreigner, he'll advise to not buy that peculiar boat, but if you made your mind, he'll know of another one, with a "positive" survey as recent as possible done, so you "will save the money for surveying this one". If this is the case (and I've seen plenty), he'll absolutely have a commission from that deal, even greater then the broker's, from the surveyed one. The difference between the two boats is minimum, the second one maybe dearer, being "freshly surveyed" and all.
Unfortunately, I've seen brokers in other countries who are the same. Check this:

"Part of our offer will be to have a marine survey completed with the findings to your satisfaction.  I know many certified surveyors and I’ll recommend several that are “top shelf” and ask that you interview and select the one you prefer"- this is part of an American broker presentation. It continues with some Q&A style : "I've heard that surveyors and Brokers team up just to sell a boat?"

"I've heard of that happening but I do nothing of the sort.  I know surveyors from a professional standpoint". That is a lie. It is better for you to come to buy with a specialist you know from before, a guy you trust, and it is not a local, that of course, if you are new to anything related to yachts, boats, and the stuff... To be continued... 

Pricing in a Marina

I just found this table for the pricing method of some Turkish Marina, which may be a custom there, but one have to check first. For a calculation in advance, it is good to anticipate.

To calculate your price, multiply your boat LOA with your beam to get square meters, then find the column corresponding to this size. As you see there are sizes between 24 - 59.99 m², 60 – 119.99 m², 120 – 179.99 m² and 180 m² and more, fact that makes four area columns. The time period is calculated in days, and as you see, the smallest factor is for a whole year. Find the multiplication factor for the number of days you plan to stay. Then, multiply this factor with the boat area you found in m² and after that, multiply it with the number of days you plan to stay. The result will be the price in Euros, for the whole period. The best part is that this includes a half price haul and launch with ten days of hard standing, with the water and electricity costs also included.

Let’s say you own a Beneteau Oceanis 58, and you plan to stay 365 days.

Multiply 18.24 m LOA with 4.99 beam which makes the area 91.01 m². You look in the 2’nd area column the 60 – 119.99 m² column and find the multiplication factor 0.255

Multiply 91.01 with 0.255 and the result with 365 and you’ll have the price of

8,470 Euros for a whole year, which makes the parking of your luxurious 5 star yacht, cheaper than any sort of lodging you can find outside the marina, with electricity and water costs included, 20.20 Euros/day, a joke.

Price List m2 24.00 59.99 60.00 119.99 120.00 179.99 180.00 + Daily 1,153 1,210 1,328 1,502 30 0,713 0,749 0,820 0,957 60 0,551 0,632 0,691 0,841 90 0,461 0,530 0,576 0,704 120 0,429 0,451 0,486 0,597 150 0,401 0,419 0,450 0,555 180 0,373 0,391 0,417 0,516 210 0,346 0,363 0,386 0,480 240 0,324 0,339 0,356 0,446 270 0,300 0,317 0,330 0,414 300 0,280 0,294 0,305 0,385 330 0,260 0,273 0,281 0,358 365 0,243 0,255 0,262 0,333

The Marina view looks like this:

and your Oceanis looks like this:

Just imagine! 10,000 Euros are a small part of a week price if you charter your 3 cabins Oceanis.

Yacht Economics

A yacht is in fact any type of vessel, other than a dinghy, propelled by sail, power or both and used for pleasure cruising or racing.

Depending more on your budget, and less on your pleasure, you can determine what kind of yacht you can afford. A yacht is an expensive toy, and not everybody is made to possess one. (You know, if I want to sell a boat to anybody, I can pretend the contrary, and be quite believable). If you buy something with less than € 20,000 the thing you bought is not a yacht, is something else. A masted dinghy is cheaper. The rough wood price is between $ 500 and $ 1,500 per cubic meter.

Some skills are required to maneuver a yacht, some papers and certificates, brevets and licenses, exams passed and so on, even if someone, a former client, told me that in France you are allowed a lot or funny things if you keep some limits, to have one means a lot more responsibility than having a car. In Turkey for sample, the Coast Guard (Sahil Güvenlik) is prosecuting everybody if they don’t present the required papers, I mean the dinghy owners as well. 

                                  (courtesy of Coast Guard site, Turkey)

Formed in 1982 as the maritime wing of the gendarmerie, the coast guard is now separate but also reports to the Ministry of Interior. The coast guard is responsible for maintaining the security of the coast and territorial waters, for conducting missions to protect its Exclusive Economic Zone in the Aegean--the boundaries of which are under dispute with Greece--for search-and-air-rescue operations, and for protecting the marine environment.

Sometimes they are right, most of the time, they aren’t. They allow the daytrip boats to carry tens of drunken tourists through the bays, not serviced by more than two or three people at the same time, only if the boat owner presents the crew’s papers and the boat assurance with the fire department approval. Don’t think I have a sting against Turkey, on the contrary, Turkey is a perfect place to buy a yacht (almost the yacht buying heaven, another exaggeration from my part and not only), and less regulations to register one and more…

In Turkey you can find the boat of your dreams, with a real price. This “real” price is closer to the building materials value, adding the manufacturing value.

A yacht is going to cost you after you buy it, as well. Try to find the price of Marina’s rentals per week, and you may have a idea then, of what to do investing in a yacht.    

Purchasing a Yacht - Part Two

7.     Is it better to try the boat before buying?

This stupid question, “top” question, I found on the net recently, mingled with the process of buying a yacht. You, what do you think? Is it better or not? In some beliefs, especially in the Muslim world, it is not recommended for the groom to try the wife to be, before wedding. One might be shut, or open up if so. But a yacht? You have to trip it as long a distance as you can buy (metaphorically speaking) from the “broker”. A free tip. It’s strongly advised to check the boat without other clients on it. I’ll explain later.

8.     Are the brand names important or not, when buying a yacht?

Only if you are in the “over 10 Mil” Category. Depends on what you’re ready to throw the money on: the label, or the guarantee coming with the label. Anyway, everything is limited.

9.     How to find a good crew?

One can find a good crew by searching it. There are forums, there are specialized sites, you can web chatting them and if you like them, you can call them. Referrals work too, but you need to test them. If they can figure what is what, they have potential. Why? The real good crew, is already employed for Johnny Depp or Mr. Abramovich. Of course I'm joking, there are a few left for you to pick up.

10.     Where to keep the yacht after I bought it?

The question must be reformulated like this: “Where am I going to keep a yacht if I’m going to buy one?” It is a good question. Some are saying that you'll be fighting the crowds in the Caribbean each winter and the Mediterranean every summer. I say, go in Turkey. I’ll show you why and how.

11.     What costs me to run the yacht?

Depends on how big it is, depends on the type, if it’s mono-hull or a catamaran, and depends on the category you are a part of. Can be up to even a Million Euros nowadays, as some “broker” advised recently on an American site. Depends, I repeat.

12.      Is it better to charter my yacht or not?

If you got the money Ma'am, Sir, you don’t have to rent it, otherwise, you can shoot some extra for maintenance and crew salaries if you’re chartering the boat. Don’t be shy with friends either. Prices depends on your nerve more, on the quality less.

13.      How much can be the insurance and if it is necessary?

One can hope that if he’s not insuring the house, maybe he got lucky and no fire or earthquake will destroy it, no thief will empty the safe and take the other valuables. Maybe depends on the neighborhood to insure or not, a house.

With a yacht, is different. It has to be insured, there is the sea, there are a lot of other factors, you scratch it, immediately sue the insurance company to pay, and so on. Later about insurance and amount.

Buying a yacht, of course.

What will follow is primarily a bunch of opinions on how to buy yachts or boats from Southern Europe and Turkey, mostly the last location, because they’re closer to their face value than what you may buy in Greece, or Italy.
I don’t think I’m going to advertise anyone for the moment, anyone in the boat or yacht selling business.
I want to share with the reader of this blog, my experience in the area and what one has to  do to be sure that the future deal he is thinking of, is arranged at its best.
I made a lot of connections in Turkey, with the package of know-how acquired by doing this. I met people, too many people. Some of them were good, some of them were not. On the contrary, they were not only just “not good”, or “not good enough”, they were bad, bad persons.
With the time passing, I shall  present all the  alternatives of buying, with the assistance of a yacht broker, or on your own. What I have learned by living there, I mean in Italy, France, Greece, Spain, and Turkey, is that there are a lot of so called “brokers”, very few with genuine experience on helping the potential customers, but aiming to take the last penny they can get.
There will be expert posts, based on selling boats, technical posts concerning yachts and maritime devices in general, and a lot of original creative things, about life on sea, life aboard and so on…

Have a nice time, until I’m getting things put into a proper order.

Know-how on boats

This is a beginning post to conserve my blog title, found by my dearest partner, love and IT mentor.
Very soon, the secrets of buying or selling boats, will be developed in the pages of this blog. Tips, personal opinion, technical data on living on board and many others.

Aegeean

The most important thing in this area is that if you want a boat, you’ll get it. Who claims that this was a childhood dream, has the money, but consider that is not the right time to ride the rainbow tail of his wish, is not telling the truth.
This guy never wanted a boat for him, he just imagined himself as a yachtsman, maybe a racing one, and this thought frightened him. It takes a lot of character to buy a boat to be yours, even with the pretext of buying it for the loved one, or for the sibling, “for later”, as I was told, a few times. Not one that I know, sold everything valuable, to buy a yacht and move effectively on board. This is a real step to make. But what a life he choose. From golf to golf, through the Caribbean, never to stop, never to be bored.
You believe?